[Nate Otoni]

Like Kuba mentioned drop the AI and add mast or primo to control E2.

If you dont want to go to high on total load. Maybe drop the Test slightly to match with added primo or mast

Why run HCG if you had a vasectomy just purely from testicle size? lol drop the HCG to many unnecessary variables.

I dont know how you dont feel like garbage with E2 that low. Last time my E2 was crashed (7) from when I was learning what my test/primo ratio was I felt like death. ( Low aromatizer , my ratio has to be 2:1 Test to Primo)

[Nate Otoni]

it is something a fair few people seem to report. initially I thought it was only people running var only cycles a long Time ago but came to realise quite a few people react like this no matter what cycle they are on when var is added in

Thanks for there reply Peter , Exactly no matter what im running. Even if I have tren in ( which makes me a horny bastard ) soon as I add even just low dose of VAR like 10-20mg 2-3 weeks in I start loosing interest. Oh well I guess no VAR for me if Im in a relationship haha

[Nate Otoni]

Primo is a funny one as it can crash your e2 hard so fair one if there’s no other issues at play

Test & mast may be the one for you – trail and error with drugs u fortunately

I have clients who can’t take primo as it crushes their estro & HDL hard – those guys tend to do well with test & mast with a sprinkle of low dose tren or npp providing they don’t affect appetite / sleep / mood / libido

When they do they get pulled

Yes it seems thats my case also with primo. Going to run test solo for a little then introduce mast slowly and maybe low dose tren after im sure my E2 is in check with test and mast and im feeling good.

[Nate Otoni]

The game of working out what you feel good on, is a never ending mission really , as it will always slightly change , depending on life and then your body weight / how hard your training , but the key is knowing what to adjust and what to monitor as a result and it defo looks like you understand that based on your responses . So now it’s just going to be figuring out the right doses and compounds for you . It’s defo very hard for anyone else to say XYZ will feel a certain way.

Nandrolone is defo an odd drug and it does seem to creep up on people . I actually feel happier and happier on it ! For me, the best mood I possibly can be in, is low dose test , like 150-250 , high nandrolone 1000-1400 and then high mast , 1000-1400 . That cycle has me so happy , body feeling awesome , joints awesome , but then that cycle may absolutely destroy someone else’s mind

Hey JP, appreciate this bro and very true I have noticed that different times of my life certain drugs do feel different and as im getting older they are also affecting me differently.

Like you said its rlly a never ending battle trying to adjust it all and it will never be perfect it will be depending a lot on the scenario you are currently in life/diet/training etc.

Thats insane that much npp/deca would fry by brain haha. But oddly enough tren doesnt rlly make me feel like npp/deca does even though they are both nandros.

With npp/deca I Start feeling like shit 24/7 until im off.

With tren i will feel fine most of time. Just sometimes i will have odd moments when Something affects me harder mentaly then it normally would then it goes away and im fine again.

Also find myself much calmer and loving and affectionate to people around me on tren which is something people usually say they feel the complete opposite haha.

I have buddys also love high npp/deca cycles and feel amazing on it but cant even take 100mg tren without going nuts. Which sucks because its hard to get that npp look with anything else full round shoulders and traps.

[Nate Otoni]

Highly appreciate the info Hilly!

I will adjust slightly like i mentioned and retest but you make a good point i have noticed i do much better in my E2 is slightly higher then normal range.

Also with npp i dont think its a estro thing because i have tried npp at least 3-4 diff times all with different ranges of E2 and test and primo and just dont feel great. At about the 5-6 week mark on npp i start getting very low. But its seems a lot of people here have same issue. I can even run tren at 200-300mg and feel much better then i do with npp

[Nate Otoni]

I really appreciate all the reasonable , understanding , helpful and thoughtful response guys!

You all are very right here to just run what feels good and dont run what doesnt and stop trying run things just because and push through the side effects all that is getting very old.

I will adjust and retest in a few weeks. Going to keep running just test at 750mg alone for another week or so to up my E2 a little, then will introduce mast E slowly at about 400mg a week and see how that feels.

[Nate Otoni]

What is your current cycle and ratio. Even though you say your E2 is in “perfect range” what does this look like. Because I feel best when my E2 is around 250 n/mol which is considered high. So whats perfect on paper obviously isn’t perfect from a psychological standpoint.

I think its having a play around with your stack and compounds and find the right ratios if everything else in your life is in a good place.

You could swap Primo for Mast and trial this. But a little more info on your cycle and hormone panel and also current body composition would be great

Currently on 750 test. But when i pulled bloods and all that was going on i was on 750 test 600 primo

E2 came back at 36pg/ml and total test 3600 nd/dl

[Nate Otoni]

Looking great Sas ! Question i think i saw somewhere you dont like to run primo and like mast instead. Whats the reasoning? Primo not make you feel body wise good or mentaly good?
Been wanting try mast also because primo hasnt been making me feel very good lately even with estro in check

[Nate Otoni]

Why would i drop down to trt if on only test at 750mg right now i feel great? I have nothing going on bad in my life. Works great , finance and family all that is in order.
Its just when a introduce certain compounds i body/mind dont agree with. Im not the only one. Your gonna tell me that you feel the same on all compounds you use? Even tren at low dose i can run and feel fine on.

[Nate Otoni]

Sounds like where Im headed. Back then I needed to run primo tad bit higher , like 500 test 700 primo to keep E2 at 40-50 and feel good for a long time.

Then after a good amount of runs like that I noticed my mood and sex drive lower on recent runs then after few bloods I had start running 1:1 ratio to keep E2 in good range.

Last few blasts even at 1:1 been starting feel off. Going to get bloods soon to see but I think I need start running primo lower also.

But in your case it could be a different things

Either your test is very underosed

or You dont aromatize much at all

In this case if 500 test and 200 primo is still keeping your E2 to low for you.

I would Drop the primo completely. Keep test at 500 and just run that.

Or keep test 500 primo 200 add in something like 100-150npp/deca week for a little boost in E2

Because if you keep test at 500 and drop primo even lower then 200 theres no point in even running primo that low. Even at 200 primo is already such a low dose to see any muscle gaining benefits from it. ORRR you could always add more test. Test is one of those you could run as high as you can safely tolerate without having E2 , bloat or blood pressure issues and etc

[Nate Otoni]

It’s still a boldenone , so I think your likely going to run into some issues if eq was causing you issue buddy .

Gonna stay away from it then haha.

Appreciate the response JP Thank you!

[Nate Otoni]

Thank you Kuba and everyone who commented.

Past 2 days I have used Kubas suggested protocol and my morning workouts have been amazing.

Much fuller , pumped , stronger , lighter and more energy.

No full gut feeling no bloat no digestion issues no gas dont feel sluggish and weighed down.

Again thanks guys !

[Nate Otoni]

Carb back loading would make more sense here. So more carbs in the evening and as kuba suggested pre training. If you eat then it will just be sat in your stomach

Yes makes sense i will do that carb load my last 2 meals and also follow Kubas advice on my pre and intra.

[Nate Otoni]

Hey,

See how you get on with the carb drinks and timings kuba has recommended. If needed you can move your carbs around throughout the day so you have more carbs in your last meal prior to a training day, along with this pre and intra nutrition timing 🙂

Will do ! Starting tomorrow ( excited lol ) ohh the simple things that get us excited haha…

Currently eating 350g carbs a day.

Usually have most of that around training Pre , Intra and post total of 250g then my other 3 meals during day no carbs.

Then 100g carbs with last meal pre bed.

[Nate Otoni]

Hey bud

Here I would do

50g cyclic dextrin ( if you can get Jp mix sustain and performance fuel for best uptake )
30g eaa 5g creatine glutamine and creatine 300 ml orange juice 500 ml water – all upon wake at 4 am – take your caffeine – drink water until gym time then just as you do first working set – same drill again without juice

Highly appreciate your response Kuba ! Thank you !

Just to clarify something if you dont mind.

So basically , No more baby rice and no more Whey?

Just get up at 4am Have that drink mix you laid out for me

keep drinking water then around 4:30am Drink my pre (caffeine/pump supplement)

5am arrive at gym warm up then start sipping the same drink mix without orange juice soon as I get into my first working set.

Also what do you think about the carb loading night before with last meal, bad idea or might be helpful?

Thanks again!