[Peter]

Did these issues start when pushing food?

Adding more variety to your plan will help your gut, you need different pro, carb and fat sources.

I agree with Clare here, add in some fermented foods too.

One thing to consider too is your stress levels, do you feel more anxious at all?

Might be easier to answer this if I do post the plan, I’ve attached it here, hopefully it’s readable!

Yeah issues started near the end of the push up, increased calories a bit too aggressively and ended up around the 6k mark. Did a mini cut and reset to about 5250 but it didn’t help, couldn’t push the food any more so moved into a diet phase and took a good chunk out, the plan attached is what I’m moving to from the end of this week and is about 4k cals on a training day. Weight has been dropping really quickly but I’ve played about with weight loss before and found I can tolerate a fairly aggressive cut, especially near the start.

As far as variance in the meal plan it does really help me to keep it simple as I batch prep four days of meals ahead of time (working fairly long hours and dont always have facilities at work to sort out food). My veg does vary (no veg noted in the plan but I do have it with most meals).

And yes, stress is high currently, hopefully not for much longer but definitely could be a factor.

[Peter]

Sounds like your already doing your best to manage this, so I agree with the others here, if you don’t see an improvement over the next couple of weeks it may then be worth reviewing some of the food sources you are consuming – even if they are clean / whole foods, sometimes weirdly I feel our bodies can start to “reject” foods that were once okay for us.. I’ve experienced that anyway! So keep your eye on it over the coming weeks!

Ahh, I hadn’t even considered that. I really hope I’m not rejecting foods as my meal plan isn’t super varied to begin with (5% fat beef, chicken breast, eggs, salmon on rest days, jasmine rice, COR, oats, sweet/white potato, fruit & veg, not a lot else!). Thanks for pointing this out, will definitely start experimenting with removing things if it doesn’t improve in a few weeks.

[Peter]

You need to focus on healing your gut.

Strip your diet back to basic foods that don’t irritate your stomach. Include fermented foods, natural collagen rich foods such as bone broth, live yoghurt, berries, avocado, green veg, salmon, beef, rice, quinoa, almonds, walnuts.

Licorice root tea, digestive enzymes, glutamine, a good probiotic supplement and apple cider vinegar might also be beneficial.

Go for short walks before and after meals to stimulate your appetite and help with digestion.

Leave adequate time before between meals and be patient.

Thanks Clare. Already doing 90% of the above, although I haven’t been having any fermented foods so will include some kimchi or sauerkraut in the plan going forward, thanks for that.

[Peter]

Unfortunately after hammering your gut with over doing food quantities it can take time for it to heal

All you’re doing with food and supplements is great, you’re going to have to give it time to heal

Does any meal make the bowels worse? Or literally just all day?

I’d look to remove any volumising foods, caffeine and sweeteners for now just pure good quality foods let the gut heal with some time in this small deficit / maintenance then you’re going to need to be very steady as you change direction again

Thanks for this, that all makes sense. No one meal makes it worse no, just overall digestion is bad currently. But this is the start of a diet phase anyway so will be running a deficit for another 12 – 16 weeks, which is hopefully plenty of time for it to recover. Hadn’t thought about pulling caffiene back, will reduce that as much as possible going forward.

Thanks again 🙂

[Peter]

1 – you can start the HCG use straight away if running when cruising.

2 – I would say 60 days if thats what google says – sounds about right as long as its in bac water and not sterile water

Perfecto 👌🏻 thanks mate

[Peter]

You can run HCG on any amount of test regardless of high dose or just TRT. For some people it just makes managing estrogen harder.

I’m not 100% on the shelf life so no help there.

Spot on, cheers 🙂

[Peter]

Thanks for this mate, much appreciated.

My ALT is always high to be fair, not quite this high usually, but I’ve never seen it go higher than it is currently. I am taking vital support, I’d just shorthanded it in the original post to vit sup haha, I’ll likely run that one permanently even in health phase.

Will increase omegas as suggested and see where that’s at in 10 weeks.

Thanks again 🙂

[Peter]

Ignore that first part mate sorry, no idea why I’m even asking about primo at this point, I’ll do exactly as you said above and drop to TRT dose alone.

Just since I’m already presenting side effects, I know aromasin kicks in in just a couple of days but if that’s just to prevent any more estrogen forming, do you think I might need to take a serm to deal with the estrogen that’s already there?

[Peter]

When you have estro issue , don’t touch test and work out what you need alongside to control the test , if you move the test , the whole thing starts again and you have to re figure out what doses of what drugs to have alongside

I would drop straight to trt now buddy, if your a high converter , will prob need an a.i , if don’t want total mg of drugs in a supra physiological range , so 150mg test alongside some
Dose of Adex aromasin ( you will need to figure it out in terms of what you need )

Appreciated mate, thanks for this. I’ll drop straight down, had my last jab of test and EQ yesterday so I’ll wait a few days then start microdosing testosterone again M/W/F. I appreciate dosage is very person dependant, but I was reading another post on here about TRT and there was mention of using test and primo for TRT, since I convert pretty heavily would you think test and primo would be a decent shout (I can work out my dosage but as a start point I was thinking 100mg test 50mg primo a week)

Would there be any sense running some nolva for a couple of weeks now to deal with the sides I’m experiencing while the aromasin deals with the high estrogen or would you expect the aromasin to work quickly enough that the nolva wouldnt be needed? Sorry if that’s a stupid question, just panicking a bit as estrogen sides like this scare the shit out of me.

[Peter]

You doubled your test ….. why did you think that would be a gd move!?

All you had to do was keep the test the same and change to primo and potentially add more primo. Instead you added more test. I don’t get it at all , how is that critical thinking when the issue is estrogen related?

This was the end of the last thread mate, I think there might have been a crossed wire which led to me thinking 500 test / 300 EQ was a decent shout.

—

Got you, thanks very much for that.

If I could throw one last question in here without being too much of a pain – would you say I can get the e2 lowering effects using 500mg test and 200mg primo / week

Or

Should I keep the ratio the same as with mast and use 250mg test 400mg primo / week

Based on the current e2 level I’m guessing the latter but the former would be a bit easier to split into two jabs per week (and a lot cheaper) so if you think it could fix the issue I can give it a blast and a re-test

[/quote]
Agree wit Jordan on the above.

for most people 200mg primo wouldn’t control E2 on 500mg test – especially if they are E2 sensitive however 200mg EQ would likely work very well – just as J says be mindful of Blood levels.

You may find the acne issue was down to high E2 which is possible.

so bringing it down to a better range may help in this area but you wouldn’t know until you tried it.[/quote]

Smashing, thanks Peter. In that case I’ll run 500mg test and 300mg EQ which will be the smallest volume of oil of all of the above.

—

[Peter]

You doubled your test ….. why did you think that would be a gd move!?

All you had to do was keep the test the same and change to primo and potentially add more primo. Instead you added more test. I don’t get it at all , how is that critical thinking when the issue is estrogen related?

My testosterone was at 94nmol which was low for a cycle (which is what made me think the masteron might have been a bad batch), so to get that to where I was wanting (around the 140nmol mark) I moved that to 500. I see what you’re saying and doubling up when I was already having estrogen related issues does seem counter intuitive (or stupid if were being straight), but also I did mention moving to 500 test & 300 EQ in my last thread before I made the switch, and with the EQ involved I was under the impression that would be okay.

Appreciating I’ve made a mistake here, but will learn from it and not do it again, is there a good route to get back on track that you can see mate? I’m not looking to cycle forever, I’m not competitive in BB and just generally really love training so I wont be cycling repeatedly and I’ll run TRT for a long time after this blast. I just want to get the estrogen down and then have a TRT dose that keeps me in normal range (without TRT my “natural” test runs about 3 – 4nmol, crazy low so TRT for me is a genuine requirement).

[Peter]

Just to add to the above, I was wanting to come off and drop down to TRT, I’ve only extended the cycle so that the EQ can bring the estrogen down. If I’m turning to serms/AI anyway would it make sense to just run a course of nolva and aromasin to clatter the high estrogen altogether, which would allow me to drop down to TRT dose now? Any advice much appreciated, cheers.

[Peter]

Primo is a human grade drug , so the literature on it is more robust in terms

Of it being a healthier long term option, BUT I still use eq interchangeably with primo , when looking at the total ml of drug , as it’s fucking annoying pinning a lot . Just be mindful of hematrocit and as a result impacts on blood pressure with eq ( rarely an issue on 400mg)

Got you, thanks very much for that.

If I could throw one last question in here without being too much of a pain – would you say I can get the e2 lowering effects using 500mg test and 200mg primo / week

Or

Should I keep the ratio the same as with mast and use 250mg test 400mg primo / week

Based on the current e2 level I’m guessing the latter but the former would be a bit easier to split into two jabs per week (and a lot cheaper) so if you think it could fix the issue I can give it a blast and a re-test

[/quote]
Agree wit Jordan on the above.

for most people 200mg primo wouldn’t control E2 on 500mg test – especially if they are E2 sensitive however 200mg EQ would likely work very well – just as J says be mindful of Blood levels.

You may find the acne issue was down to high E2 which is possible.

so bringing it down to a better range may help in this area but you wouldn’t know until you tried it.[/quote]

Smashing, thanks Peter. In that case I’ll run 500mg test and 300mg EQ which will be the smallest volume of oil of all of the above.

Going forward I’ll just do the same again, test and mast for the bulk of the cycle and let e2 climb but not present any sides, then introduce EQ to bring it down before coming off, so I won’t be taking EQ for any great length of time. Feeling good about this, as always really appreciate your input mate thank you.

[Peter]

You can ask endless questions in here mate , that’s why it’s here

Now we are getting into real individual aspect of the drug use , and there is only way to find our mate , but based on these questions it defo seems like you will be able to find a sweet spot where you feel great, look great, skin is in better control 🙂

Got you, will give it a shot and see how it goes! Thanks again for your time mate, have a great weekend 👍🏻

[Peter]

Primo is a human grade drug , so the literature on it is more robust in terms
Of it being a healthier long term option, BUT I still use eq interchangeably with primo , when looking at the total ml of drug , as it’s fucking annoying pinning a lot . Just be mindful of hematrocit and as a result impacts on blood pressure with eq ( rarely an issue on 400mg)

Got you, thanks very much for that.

If I could throw one last question in here without being too much of a pain – would you say I can get the e2 lowering effects using 500mg test and 200mg primo / week

Or

Should I keep the ratio the same as with mast and use 250mg test 400mg primo / week

Based on the current e2 level I’m guessing the latter but the former would be a bit easier to split into two jabs per week (and a lot cheaper) so if you think it could fix the issue I can give it a blast and a re-test