[Stephen Williams]

Also, thanks for taking the time to respond. If I’m on to a dead end then it may be frustrating for some of you that you had to take the time to reply. However, for me it would still be useful as it would help improve my understanding of this topic.

[Stephen Williams]

Also an additional point

If It’s inflammation related then any one from cyclists etc to BB would experience the same thing surely

Just because a top level cyclist will burn it off n maintain insulin sensitivity doesn’t mean they wouldn’t experience the same gastric stress or inflammation any one else would surely ?

Of course the GI system is vital. We know that you can “train the gut” and I would suspect this is combined with favourable genetics for good gut health in top cyclists.

The scenario I’m thinking of is not just from GI stress or dysbiosis, but probably a combination of GI stresses, hyperglycaemia and the other (necessary) stresses that come from bodybuilding training too.

[Stephen Williams]

Sweets won’t do a thing here , I know a lot of ridiculously athletic guys that live on Haribo.

Obv it goes without saying that it’s better to eat healthy . But a bag of sweets isn’t making your knee sore lol

You know as well as anyone that the recovery demands from weight training are different from typical athletic training (I’m assuming by athletic guys you don’t mean bodybuilders, correct me if wrong). Our modality of training is designed to put as much load/tension/stress through localised areas of muscle tissue. The localised swelling and inflammation is typically much greater.

We know that excessive sugar intake in uric acid, crp, Nf-kB and other markers related to inflammation/insulin resistance.

Athlete often benefit from haribo as the energetic demands of their training require large amounts of carbohydrates. This is why Tour De France are renowned for having a tremendous intake of simple sugars/processed foods, whilst also remaining as some of the most insulin sensitive individuals on the planet! (Check out Peter Attia’s two part interview with Inigo San Millan if interested in this).

On the other hand, bodybuilders typically overconsume carbohydrates as a way to deliberately increase body mass. Of course our training requires carbohydrates for optimal performance, but not all that many. This is where the downsides of simple sugars occur and negatively influence things like insulin resistance and inflammation levels etc. These problems do not occur when in a fat loss phase. However, I am confident it is a different story when in a >500 caloric surplus for >20 weeks as part of an off season. Couple this with AAS use and vast, continuous increases in strength, placing greater demands locally on joints/muscles as well as global stress throughout the body.

In the above scenario it seems very plausible that things like sweets could contribute to injuries. Of course, a bag of skittles is probably not going to tear a quad off the bone. I would argue that when eaten regularly, they could certainly contribute to the development of more chronic injuries like various tendinopathies. Regarding my achilles and knee, these are old injuries that have not bothered me in years. I just found it interesting that today I woke up and they were both nagging at me.

None of this applicable to the likes of Kuba or Jordan who are very articulate with all of their variables. My post was more to see what kind of discussion it would ignite and was aimed more towards those who train regularly, take anabolics, eat bodybuilding meals most of the time but could not tell you their actual caloric intake, and enjoy a takeaway and beers most weekends. These are the people who I think often do themselves an injustice by using highly processed foods in a post workout setting to try and get big and should be aware of the potential downsides.

[/quote]
I would disagree with this.

I can’t see a bag of skittles causing any one an injury

Wether they are a bodybuilder using AAS, natural or a figure skater

Over consumption of highly processed foods over time may lead to digestive stress which could lead to inflammation and thus reduce reduce recovery over time

However I think the chances of that happening in any one is slim to none and it’s simply reading to much science n not thinking logically

I would imagine In Your OP there is little relevance but we could theorise the bag of sugar has caused an insulin spike which could of thrown some electrolyte balance off.

However you simply could have done something the day before that you didn’t realise

Or as Kuba stated it may of effected sleep

If this was likely every normal
Person that visited the cinema would be reporting issues the following day after pick n mix n popcorn[/quote]

I muddied the water a bit here by mentioning my own experience this morning. I am currently recovering from an operation I had on Monday (non related to achilles or knee), so my body is in a state of stress. The incident with the sweets is not a normal one and I am not suggesting that one bag of sweets would cause chronic injury in a weightlifter. It’s just my experience this morning made me start thinking about how odd it is that the first bag of sweets I’ve had in possibly over a year, also coincided with a minor re-emergence of a couple of injuries I was training around for years.

Note as well that the point I wanted to make does not just refer to sweets but processed/pro inflammatory foods in general (which vary from person to person). It could be cereal, jam and bagels, popcorn (it could also not be any of those things for some people).

Anyway, my thought was that including these foods in a hypercaloric diet for an extended period of time, could be another “straw on the camels back”. I’m not suggesting that a food choice is the night and day difference between injured and healthy. However, it could be the difference between being a bit sore but still being able to train around it, or being that bit more sore that throws off your mechanics and slightly extends recovery time causing an injury to become more than it should be. Again, when you are progressing loads for a continuous period of time, that small loss in recovery between sessions, could be the difference here.

[Stephen Williams]

Good effort at trolling mate

Just to clarify, I am not Skankhunt42.

[Stephen Williams]

Sweets won’t do a thing here , I know a lot of ridiculously athletic guys that live on Haribo.

Obv it goes without saying that it’s better to eat healthy . But a bag of sweets isn’t making your knee sore lol

You know as well as anyone that the recovery demands from weight training are different from typical athletic training (I’m assuming by athletic guys you don’t mean bodybuilders, correct me if wrong). Our modality of training is designed to put as much load/tension/stress through localised areas of muscle tissue. The localised swelling and inflammation is typically much greater.

We know that excessive sugar intake in uric acid, crp, Nf-kB and other markers related to inflammation/insulin resistance.

Athlete often benefit from haribo as the energetic demands of their training require large amounts of carbohydrates. This is why Tour De France are renowned for having a tremendous intake of simple sugars/processed foods, whilst also remaining as some of the most insulin sensitive individuals on the planet! (Check out Peter Attia’s two part interview with Inigo San Millan if interested in this).

On the other hand, bodybuilders typically overconsume carbohydrates as a way to deliberately increase body mass. Of course our training requires carbohydrates for optimal performance, but not all that many. This is where the downsides of simple sugars occur and negatively influence things like insulin resistance and inflammation levels etc. These problems do not occur when in a fat loss phase. However, I am confident it is a different story when in a >500 caloric surplus for >20 weeks as part of an off season. Couple this with AAS use and vast, continuous increases in strength, placing greater demands locally on joints/muscles as well as global stress throughout the body.

In the above scenario it seems very plausible that things like sweets could contribute to injuries. Of course, a bag of skittles is probably not going to tear a quad off the bone. I would argue that when eaten regularly, they could certainly contribute to the development of more chronic injuries like various tendinopathies. Regarding my achilles and knee, these are old injuries that have not bothered me in years. I just found it interesting that today I woke up and they were both nagging at me.

None of this applicable to the likes of Kuba or Jordan who are very articulate with all of their variables. My post was more to see what kind of discussion it would ignite and was aimed more towards those who train regularly, take anabolics, eat bodybuilding meals most of the time but could not tell you their actual caloric intake, and enjoy a takeaway and beers most weekends. These are the people who I think often do themselves an injustice by using highly processed foods in a post workout setting to try and get big and should be aware of the potential downsides.

[Stephen Williams]

100%.

High blood pressure is the silent killer. If you’re going to take something that risks increasing it, ie AAS. Then you need to take all steps possible to control it.

Diet should be 100%.
Regular cardio.
Bodyfat in a healthy range.

I know we all went to get jacked but this is far more important. Also, a healthy body is going to be more receptive to training adaptation so will likely see better progress in muscle growth and fat loss!

[Stephen Williams]

Good luck buddy?

[Stephen Williams]

I think Winstrol is a compound that people prefer to take orally for this reason!

[Stephen Williams]

Hey Stephen, the only thing I can think of was i introduced things like fruit juice to get some easy calories in but with my calories dropped I’m not having that anymore

That could actually have been the cause. Be interesting to see if your skin clears up now its out and calories dropped.

[Stephen Williams]

Although it may not be possible at high caloric amounts, try not to have carbohydrates with every meal.

[Stephen Williams]

Any new foods you weren’t eating previously? I only ask because usually I’m spot free, however certain foods have made me break out badly on cycle.

[Stephen Williams]

Seeing as you are limited by loads then the only levers you have to pull on are rep range and number of sets.

I guess you would find the reps you can currently do with your weights and try and increase total reps session upon session.

The problem is that it is not realistic to be doing 30 rep sets on everything and get an effective (muscle building) training effect.

You could reduce rest times but that is more likely to induce less hypertrophy relevant adaptations.

In short, my answer would be to progressively increase the reps over time. Maybe you could slightly change the form of exercises to create a novel stimulus also.

Realistically though, you will eventually need access to higher loads to make serious progression.

[Stephen Williams]

Also, food intolerances and consuming too many processed or other inflammatory foods should be considered.

I had various, chronic joint problems for years and they were closely correlated with my chrohns (digestive) symptoms.

[Stephen Williams]

Hilly has pretty much nailed it.

I would also suggest including some organ meats in your diet (liver/heart). The reason for this is that they are dense with highly bio-available minerals and vitamins (particularly liver). This should ensure you do not have any deficiencies potentially brought about from your condition.

Are you able to eat fruit?

I ask because excessive vegetable intake can often exacerbate GI problems. (Although I am unsure if they would affect yours).

Having occassional organ meats and fruits will ensure you meet your nutritional demands, and the hormetic benefits from vegetables can potentially be met through exercise, cold water immersion, and sauna etc.

[Stephen Williams]

Stephen you have changed the narrative with the addition of steroids discussion. Steroids are an exogenous hormone that cause supra physiological alterations ? , you are totally right though with your example BUT , you will be really fucking surprised at the lack of variation in gen pop hormonal situations which is what this post talked about.

So situations imo inter individuality come into play , introduction of steroids , change of dose of steroids – so varying levels of supra physiological alterations .

Natural , immensely elite athletes , the best of the best of the best

Where I think hormonal variations make basically no diff at all , gen pop , why? Because they don’t adhere enough for us to even tell lol

I completely agree. In practice (especially with the genpop), energy balance is the only factor worth focusing on.

I was just trying to demonstrate a scenario (albeit an extreme one) which shows that energy balance is not the only thing to influence fat loss. Although I will stress again that in practice it is by far the most important factor.