[K-Antoni]

I think rir is absurd and makes no sense at all. But play with both and come to your own decision

@Jordan_peters okay thanks I will see what works best for me but I value your knowledge and if you prefer top set back if set I’ll probably go with that

[K-Antoni]

As Robert already said that to you, yes 🙂

Okay thank you @Jordan_peters so as I am not crazy strong and when i have performed the top set back of set feel like I could of done more as I don’t really get sore even though I’m taking both sets to failure I see positives in both approaches I know it isn’t something that’s going to make a huge deal but what should I go with RIR or 2 sets to failure top set back off thanks

[K-Antoni]

Hi Kian,

I think if you’re leaning toward an upper/lower split, then getting it mapped out and understanding how you progress and recover is a smart approach.

It might be worth considering that if you’re going to adopt an RIR approach with 4 sets per movement, it could take you quite some time to work through an upper/lower split. You’ll get a sense of how workable that is as you try it.

Re educational videos , you can find Jordan’s take on upper/lower set up on YouTube

Thank you for the response I’ll give that video a watch now so would you recommend me follow the RIR approach or the top set back of set I want to follow the one that will give me the best results of course I don’t struggle to train to failure and honestly prefer it I went back to trying RIR system yesterday for the first Time in a few months felt
My analysis of the two are

RIR

-better pump
-definitely got more sore
-last set to failure felt better as I had more blood in the muscle and had already performed the movement 3 times so form and setup was perfected by the last set
-took longer to complete the session

Top set back of set

-feel more efficient as just causing stimulus then recovering
-I don’t really get sore from this training even though I’m taking both sets to failure (might be due to lower volume)
-sets later on in the workout are more efficient as I am more fresh
-makes tracking progression easier as you just have one set to beat in a set rep range per exercise
-you can’t really miss and it is easy to see how your performing as you cant get training to failure wrong but it is easy for a lot of people to miss judge RIR sets (but even with RIR I take last set to failure) so with failure you know 100% if your progressing platued or regressing but RIR also offers more chances to progress as you can increase one variable across more sets have

what is your experience with the two and what would you recommend thanks

[K-Antoni]

Whether it’s RIR or top set back off set it’s really just down to what’s the appropriate amount of volume that you can do that you can still recover from. This will vary depending on how strong you are and how far along you are. Someone like Jordan doing 5 plate smith presses is going to need less amount of sets than someone doing 2 or 2.5 plates on the same exercise. Start with 3 sets following your RIR if you choose with the last set to failure, see how long it takes you to recover. Adjust up or down as needed with your own recovery capabilities.

You don’t have to taper as the meso goes on if you are staying at or around what your maximum recoverable volume is, you’re just always on that line until a deload is necessary. But keep in mind your volume may fluctuate depending on how your recovery stays in play. (Sleep, stress, nutrition, etc)

Personally on deloads I keep calories the same often, the point of a Deload is to try and get rid of fatigue and keep just enough stimulus to stay primed for the following push again.

Best of luck, get massive 👊

So would you say do as much volume as possible as long as I can recover from it so do my MRV if that’s 2 sets or 4 sets stick with it until I stall and need a deload ? @Jordan_peters

[K-Antoni]

I figured I’m going to put stiff leg deadlifts in lower 2 and re arrange the layout of exercises to fit the deadlift

[K-Antoni]

Choosing an Upper/Lower split here would be a good idea if you want more frequency all round. Run it while you can still get some progress from it and recover well.

I like the top set and back off approach with varying rep ranges and taken to failure. There’s no need for multiple sets using the RIR approach before reaching the top set in my opinion, as you’re just accumulating more fatigue before reaching your actual failure set, which will likely result in a less productive set.

I can’t watch the upper/lower programming section just yet but what is your opinion on me doing 2 different variations on upper and the middle one more arms focused starting with heaving dips and shoulder presses

So this is the plan I have so far

Upper 1
-BB bench press
-Chest supported row
-INCLINE CHEST PRESS
-SINGLE ARM LAT PULLDOWN
-OVERHEAD CABLE TRICEP EXTENSION
-INCLINE DB CURL
-LYING CABLE LATERAL RAISE

LOWER 1
-CABLE ROPE CRUNCH
-SEATED CALVE RAISE
-ADDUCTOR MACHINE
-SEATED HAMSTRING CURL
-LEG EXTENSION
-SMITH SQUAT
-LEG PRESS
-LYING HAMSTRING CURL

ARMS & shoulders
-WEIGHTED DIPS
-HAMMER CURLS
-CABLE TRICEP CROSS OVER
-PREACHER CURL
-MACHINE LATERAL RAISE
-LYING CABLE LATERAL RAISE
-REVERSE PEC DECK FLY
-SHRUGS

Rest

Lower
-CABLE ROPE CRUNCH
-SEATED CALVE RAISE
-ADDUCTOR MACHINE
-SEATED HAMSTRING CURL
-LEG EXTENSION
-HACK SQUAT
-LEG PRESS
-LYING HAMSTRING CURL

Upper
-INCLINE SMITH PRESS
-NEUTRAL GRIP LAT PULLDOWN
-PEC DECK FLY
-SINGLE ARM CABLE ROW
-CABLE PULL OVER
-KATANAS
-INCLINE DB CURL
-LYING CABLE LATERAL RAISE

Rest

[K-Antoni]

Whether it’s RIR or top set back off set it’s really just down to what’s the appropriate amount of volume that you can do that you can still recover from. This will vary depending on how strong you are and how far along you are. Someone like Jordan doing 5 plate smith presses is going to need less amount of sets than someone doing 2 or 2.5 plates on the same exercise. Start with 3 sets following your RIR if you choose with the last set to failure, see how long it takes you to recover. Adjust up or down as needed with your own recovery capabilities.

You don’t have to taper as the meso goes on if you are staying at or around what your maximum recoverable volume is, you’re just always on that line until a deload is necessary. But keep in mind your volume may fluctuate depending on how your recovery stays in play. (Sleep, stress, nutrition, etc)

Personally on deloads I keep calories the same often, the point of a Deload is to try and get rid of fatigue and keep just enough stimulus to stay primed for the following push again.

Best of luck, get massive 👊

Thank you for the response I appreciate the help 👊🏽

[K-Antoni]

If you lean towards upper/lower because of frequency then go for it buddy . I’d programme straight sets in different ranges yes , because they are easier to recover from as opposed to intensifiers

Thank you for the response I was also wondering about RIR I used Mike Thurston app and noticed he follows an RIR approach where he would do 3-4 sets on most exercises and he said he would leave one or two reps in the tank and if your advanced take the last set to failure what approach would be better a top set back of set with varying rep ranges or the RIR approach

[K-Antoni]

Here I would get consistency. Set step target 10-15k is a big difference. Then with food stick to a set plan then you know exactly what you are eating. Until you are doing this you are not dieting you are thinking about it but not doing. Get after it and then keep us updated in a few weeks time

Okay thank you for the advice I will do

[K-Antoni]

Firstly do your due diligence as you’ve stated and get water tight with all foods so you aren’t skipping up anywhere. And then give it time. At least 2 weeks before an adjustment needs to be made calorie wise.

Okay thank you

[K-Antoni]

Just try it out bud and see how you get on with it recovery, progress wise etc. form some feedback and then report it back here and we can further help you tweak based on that!

Okay thanks

[K-Antoni]

I would just cut until you can see all your abs – then grow until you cant and repeat the process.

Dont over complicate it 🙂

What body fat % would you estimate that I am at [/quote]

15-16% potentially but does it matter what the number says? Its just a number and the number looks different on us all due to varying amounts of body fat.

[/quote]
That’s very true thank you

[K-Antoni]

Can you post the training in comments please so I can see clearly

Yh no worries

[K-Antoni]

Struggling to read this bud, if you can post the sessions along with what days you will train what bodypart please

I follow a push pull rest legs rest and have 2 variations for each day

[K-Antoni]

Is this better