[Nick Robinson]

I just came off a tren cycle. I started at 10mg ED for the first week, and went to 20mg ED for week 2. In both weeks my sleep was horrific. I was going to tap out, but a friend suggested upping my dose, so I went to 350mg per week then slowly came back down. I immediately got great sleep in that first week – in fact no sides at all. Slightly irritable. Then week 2 the sleep took another nose dive, and I came off. I only started to see some progress in week 3, so I only had 3 weeks of noticable recomp, but decided the lack of sleep was screwing with my emotional system and it wasnt worth it.

[Nick Robinson]

Steven-

You can get all of that information from ChatGpt brother. You are asking a lot. I am curious though, what part of this regimen do you see will be helping your muscle growth axis? This is just a bunch of peptides and doesnt even include CJC or Ipa which would be common for the muscle growth part, certainly in my experience.

You would do SS-31 first as a cycle, and THEN move to Mots-C. Use BPC/TB daily for systemic coverage via belly injection, or for BPC at the site where injury is pronounced.

I havent used GLow. I use NAD+ and do 200mg a day for a few weeks as a cycle and then take a break.

My experience with these is that none in your list will be supporting muscle growth directly. BPC/TB for injury preventiion, inflammation (Glutathione?), SS-31/Mots-C for mitochondria/metabolism, Glow for skin/collagen, NAD+ for energy pathway improvements.

Nick.

[Nick Robinson]

I would go

400mg test with 150mg NPP for 8 weeks.
Get bloods done , asses all n gauge my move from here

Thanks Peter.

[Nick Robinson]

If the source is normally legit, its likely carrier oil. I have different colors too, but some are in MCT and some are in a different oil and look darker.

[Nick Robinson]

Good idea to post here! I actually don’t know anyone who is unfortunately.. it maybe also worth putting this on your insta stories 🙂

Ha great idea!

[Nick Robinson]

There’s no real issue if you sit at the higher side of E2 and experience no negative symptoms.

Thanks Clare.

[Nick Robinson]

If you are someone who can sit higher with Jen and not actually feel the effects yes it’s not a necessity for you to need to have to take it down if you aren’t getting the sites but it is just something to stay aware of

If you are wanting to try it at the small dose that you’ve suggested it’s something that you could use for those first four weeks if there is a negative response you know that it’s potentially something not for you if it was me I wouldn’t then try to offset it with an AI I would just essentially choose a stack that is more ideal for you

Meg,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Your suggestion of going for 4 weeks as an assessment is very practical. I pull bloods every 4 weeks as I push up doses anyway so this would be a no-drama, sensible approach.

I admit I wasnt expecting your last suggestion, though it makes a lot of sense too – if I need an AI then look for something else. In this case would you be thinking something like mast or primo, or even EQ?

I was working under the assumption to push and grow, the AI is inevitable in the end, unless a different estrogen favoring compound is used with the test. But I was under the impression mast/primo and even EQ are not very anabolic and good for muscle growth like NPP, but I could be utterly wrong there.

Time for more research. Thanks for your thoughts Meg, these have got me thinking.

Nick.

[Nick Robinson]

Ryan-

Thanks for the response. I was worried about the NPP load too. I definitely want to try NPP with test for my bulk, if I can manage the estrogen problem. I have aromasin on hand and I also have some EQ/mast and primo. I suspect I aromatize well given the high e2 number so 500mg test alone is going to push that, before the NPP even though I know its lower. I could test/200npp to not go to full boar and see how I get on for 4 weeks and get bloods.

I just got P2P too and am looking to load up on it before I jump on NPP. I also have Caber on hand for a worse-case scenario.

Thanks for your reply Ryan.

Nick.

[Nick Robinson]

… For training volume, I currently follow JP’s Upper/Lower, 2 set regimen, 4x a week. Would dropping to just 1 intense set meet the reduction of training volume objective?

Thanks for the advice.

Yes it certainly could be a very good move.[/quote]

Thanks Peter.

[Nick Robinson]

Henry have you considered MOTs-C instead, given its more focused AMPK/Insulin-sensitivity impact without the problems that come with metformin?

Nick.

[Nick Robinson]

Hey nick, it’s great to hear the surgery went well and thankyou for updating us all. Sometimes it can be more daunting of the ‘what ifs’ post surgery, but we can only control what we can control. That means ensuring correct fuel and recovery is in place.

Thanks Phoebe; appreciate you responding. I was definitely nervous after such a good push up to the surgery, and I am now thankful most of what was lost is likely water and maybe a little muscle but nothing deleterious it seems. The advice here was priceless.

🙏🏻

[Nick Robinson]

Hey buddy, like Sas has mentioned I don’t think you will lose all of those gains. I think if you’re diet, training and rest is just as good as when your on cycle you can maintain a lot of them gains! Also when you do go back on cycle you will see that progress come back fairly quickly:

Thanks Louis. This is all encouraging – I think I may have seen a video with Dorian Yates where he says you lose it all, though I dont recall if he factored in a cruise dose of ~200mg. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have definitely learnt something here.

[Nick Robinson]

Great advice above. I found on 200 mg I maintained alot of my tissue on higher doses. Diet stayed spot on and adjusted volume when needed. Once I come off everything I turned to shit pretty quickly even with training and the same diet. There’s definitely a sweet spot.

Thanks Ryan. When you say you came off everything, I am guessing that means PCT to zero injectables, and no TRT?

I went onto TRT when I hit 50 because my testosterone was a disaster, perhaps after perma-fasting for too many years. Its good to know that ~200mg allowed you to maintain a lot of your tissue produced on much bigger doses – thats encouraging.

Thank you.

[Nick Robinson]

Fully agree with Sas here.

some smart things to do to make sure you maintain as much as possible.

Reduce training volume overall and maybe frequency to.
Dont try and diet or if you do not to lean when cruising but if the goal is maximum muscle retention then dont diet at all.
Try not to tell yourself your going to loose size/strength as the body tends to follow were the mind goes

The dieting advice here makes a lot of sense. Admittedly I was thinking I would need to reduce some calories, but the more I think about it, if the mission is max-muscle-retention, then some fluff is part of the mission.

For training volume, I currently follow JP’s Upper/Lower, 2 set regimen, 4x a week. Would dropping to just 1 intense set meet the reduction of training volume objective?

Thanks for the advice.

[Nick Robinson]

Thank u Nick for the update !

You see it will just get better from there !

Keep up the good work and take care

Thanks Allison, your advice was very helpful.