DrDeanStMart
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Max,
200mg for me normally has me above 25 nmol which is fine.
500 IU is more than enough – The Crisler Method
http://drjohncrisler.com/the-crisler-hcg-protocol—part-deux.htmlWill,
The reason why I wouldn’t run them indefinitely is they can have detrimental side effects if used at high dose for prolonged period of time.The analogy I make is similar to jump starting a car.
If there is still exogenous hormones present in the body then it is impossible to jump start the system with hCG similarly to if a car battery is still charged you cannot physically jump start it.
The SERMs are then the fuel to keep the battery charging once started.
This is why it is essential that you wait until you are sure all exogenous hormones have cleared out to start restoring HPTA function.The hCG is the jump start for the testicles, the SERMs then are the stimulation for the pituitary to take over.
Dave’s objective from his modified Power PCT protocol is just to boost sperm numbers via the hCG/hMG stimulation rather than recovering normal HPTA function. Again this would only be useful to someone who had spermatogenesis still occurring during cycle rather than someone suffering hypogonadism with no sperm production.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
I’m happy to remain off until our plans are done so as to not jeopardize anything.
It also allows me time to correct lipids which would have been skewed the last 6 years.I have discussed with my wife that if my natural levels recover back to around 8 nmol which is where it was when I was 23 and natural; that I may consider TRT for better life quality combined with hCG to maintain fertility but we both would like to have our children close together early on so remaining off for 2-3 years is a short time in the overall goal. Plus I don’t have any plans to turn pro as of yet so there’s no pressure there.
I too am happy to run TRT for the future for better life quality once this is all done….plus have to make sure I’ll be a jacked grandfather LOL
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
In theory I suppose it could be used multiple times….
However one may also damage the HPTA irreversibly by repeatedly turning off/turning on if the frequency was too often.
The protocol above is 90 days and an expense also so that must be considered – approx 450 euro….But I do see if one was worried about later fertility then running the protocol may help and one could “preserve” this fertility in future cycles. The answer to this would be if you had fertility tested and knew it was low and wanted to conceive later on. Low dose hCG from the very start of the new cycles would then help to keep spermatogenesis stimulated if one was in doubt about it being compromised during cycle but I still have my concerns about this being detrimental long term if one was ever considering coming off completely due to the long term low level stimulation.
Depending on where my levels come back post protocol I will more than likely remain off until we have our family plans completed rather than go back on to have to worry about restarting again…
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Now no one has any excuse to not get an answer on full PCT 😉 LOL
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Hi Will,
Glad I could help
I took bloods last Thursday 4 weeks after my last shot so I’m waiting on those before starting as I want to ensure Test is at a 0 (zero) baseline. There’s no point in starting any time earlier if there is still exogenous test present.
The hypothetical start date is the 9th of April when it would in theory be fully cleared.
If bloods come back zero then we start ASAP.I will run the same as Power PCT.
This is the plan laid out for anyone following:Day 1 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 2 – 25mg Aromasin -> taken the days following the hcG to prevent intracellular aromatisation due to potential testosterone upregulation (remember e2 signalling controls the feedback loop so we want to keep it low)
Day 3 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 4 – 25mg Aromasin
Day 5 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 6 – 25mg Aromasin
Day 7 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 8 – 25mg Aromasin / 75 IU hMG
Day 9 – 2000 IU hCGBy this stage there will be 10,000 IU hCG used so hMG will be alternating the hCG as a further boost:
Day 10 – 25mg Aromasin + 75 IU hMG
Day 11 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 12 – 25mg Aromasin + 75 IU hMG
Day 13 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 14 – 25mg Aromasin + 75 IU hMG
Day 15 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 16 – 25mg Aromasin + 75 IU hMG
Day 17 – 2000 IU hCG
Day 18 – 25mg Aromasin + 75 IU hMG
Day 19 – 2000 IU hCGFollowing last hCG shot (20,000IU hcg plus 300 IU hMG in total), add in SERM to boost LH/FSH signalling via pituitary:
Day 20 – 25mg Aromasin + 100 mg Clonid + 40 mg Nolvadex + RedCon1 Boomstick for the DHEA.
Day 21 – 100mg Clomid + 40 mg Nolvadex
Day 22 – 25mg Aromasin + 100 mg Clonid + 40 mg NolvadexAfter Day 22, dropping the Aromasin as aromatisation from hCG should no longer be a consideration.
Day 23 to Day 33 – 100mg Clomid + 40 mg Nolvadex + RedCon1 Boomstick for the DHEA.
Then 6 further weeks of 100mg Clomid + 20 mg Nolvadex
Day 34 to Day 75 – 100mg Clomid + 20mg NolvadexDay 90 – 2 weeks following last SERM re-test bloods and get sperm count checked again.
Also. once I stop the Aromasin, I’m going to aggressively address my HDL and LDL so I will update on that also.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Hi Will,
If you’ve read my log there’s discussion similar to what you’re doing.
And you might just get an answer to your hMG sourcing…….
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
4 hours away from supplements or medication.
3g is normally prescribed.
Why do you need it?
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Normally post workout hypo means you didn’t have adequate glycogen to support the volume of that workout.
If volume has changed to an increase then you may need to increase carbs to support this increase.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Low MCH is normally an iron deficiency – have you had this tested?
EQ may make this problem worse
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Read my log and you might get an answer……..
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Search back through my replies or the forum. I’ve answered this a few times with suggestions.
In your case it seems your COMT isn’t allowing cathecolamines to be cleared properly meaning you’re tired but wired.
Magnesium bisglycinate will help this.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Hi Matthew,
It’s a very difficult thing to really give an answer on as hypothetically a person’s first cycle could irreversibly damage the HPTA.
One must also take into account their own natural level previous to using and if it was low for example 8 or 9 nmol. Restoring HPTA might not bring levels any higher than this and you would suffer mentally in my opinion due to low level hormones.
Dave Palumbo I guess is an example of someone who ran PCTs and is now claimed to be fully off with a level close to 600 ng / DL so I suppose it could be a good strategy.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Your prolactin is probably too high.
You’re 10 weeks into the cycle so the plasma concentration of nandrolone is going to be quite high from the weeks preceding injecting 300mg per week. Week 1 would just be clearing now.
With nandrolone still in you’re not giving your levels a chance to drop.
High estrogen can cause issues but you’d be experiencing sides from that like high BP, bloating etc.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
When does the pain occur?
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place" -
Cheers Rotties !
I used hCG previously in the past during cycles but didn’t last year due to laziness…..I still stand by leaving hCG until you come off fully though if you are blasting and cruising as there is still not enough research on long term frequent use.
Dr John Crisler is becoming more adamant on hCG use during long term TRT which I agree wit though as a way to support fertility and I read of someone increase sperm count to 90 million from 10 using 100 iu hCG daily for a year (36500 IU in total; not too far off the 20,000 IU used for POWER PCT).I agree on using zinc but not folic acid……
Folic acid is a horrible substance. It occupies your folate receptor but does noting to activate it therefore blocking folate from doing its job of activating the methylation cycle which is used for DNA repair etc. Always use 5-THMF 5-tetarhydromethylfolate as this is what our bodies use. I take 1000mcg 5-MTHF everyday as I have 1 of the 2 MTHFR gene defects meaning my methylation is 30% slower.
This will be first experience with hMG so will be interesting to report on it.
The other reason I want to come off for a period is to monitor if I can get lipids better (HDL increased and drop LDL) with correct supplementation now that AI/exogenous hormones will be removed.
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"When you feel like giving up, remember why you started in the first place"