[Hilly]

High E2 without a doubt causes water retention so this would be my immediate thought here.

How are you injecting the test. I would look to move this to daily and you should see a pretty decent improvement in E2. If no then reduce your dose.

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[Hilly]

Agree with the above – you are in a fine spot to push up from.

However personally as your here now I would push a little further – \the leaner you start from the better as long as performance is holding in the gym

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[Hilly]

Wednesday – Normal meal plan

Cardio done.
all work done.
Time with Arilena.
All meals in
all boxes ticked today as usual and very happy

Legs – Work sets listed

Lay ham curls with a pause in contraction – x 10, x 8, x 8, x 6F with a drop set
Extensions – 3 second negative and a pause in contraction – x 10, x 10, x 10F

Leg press – 7PPS x 15, 8PPS x 15, x9PPS x 15 up on last week and didn’t expect this, 10PPS x 10F with 4 forced reps – Strength was fantastic here today – Felt bad after this set tho

1 leg leg press banded – x 10, x 10, x 10
Seated ham curls – x 8, x 8, x 8, x 7F with a drop set

Adductor – 3 second negative and pause in contraction – x 15, x 12, x 13F

Very good session, However the last sat on leg press tweaked my lower back – I felt it at rep 10 – had my feet a little 2 low. My little toe was numb after this and it put me off the rest of the workout for a bit TBH so pulled an exercise out.
Also didn’t do the widow maker on smith squats

Ruined after. Very happy

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[Hilly]

not in order.

Creatine

TBJP omega pro

TBJP natural stack

TBJP love heart for heart health

protein powder –

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[Hilly]

I do in general – for the time it takes to pull back the plunger I dont see why not to and I have drawn blood out once before when doing so.

I do agree in reality there may be little worry but it doesn’t harm to.

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[Hilly]

That all looks fine

Are you currently on TRT – is this why you are dropping back down to your usual dose?

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[Hilly]

Tuesday –

Cardio done

All meals in.

Trained arms – work sets listed

Preacher machine – 4 second negative and pause in contraction – x 12, x10, x 10, x 6F

Cable drag curls – x 10, x8, x 8, x 7F

Rope hammer curls – 3 second negative and 3 second positive – x 10, x 10, x 7F

giant set – 5 exercises – 1 set each – 10 reps

Rope PD – done with partials after each set – x 15, x 12, x 9F, x 11F

Tri extension machine – 4 second negative – x 10, x 10, x 9F, x 13F

1 arm Cable PD – x 10, x 10, x 7F

Tri set – 10 reps each. – 2 rounds

Wide grip pull downs – 4 x 12 reps

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[Hilly]

My viewpoint has always been

– if you’re going to take exogenous hormones which will cause damage to your body however mild that may be – take the cycle that will give the best cost/benefit.

In other words start the cycle that will give the potential for the most musculature gain and comparatively little impact on bloodwork and systemic stress

This ends up being around 500mg and a combination of test and a dht derivative. E.g. 300mg test 200mg primo/masteron

make it worth your while.

Peoples arguments are usually – why start them on 500mg when you can make great progress on 200mg. – well because by their 2nd or 3rd cycle they will naturally gravitate to that 500mg mark because whilst you can make great progress on 200mg, the different to 300mg of test and 200mg primo is vast. – so may as well start at that for only a minor increase in bodily stress

Im going to agree with max here.

I see so much blood work people taking 200mg and it barely putting them outside of the normal range it seems like a backwards idea to me.

I see no reasoning to use less than 300mg testosterone and most will get on great with this as a stand alone.

I could even argue further that considering studies show no ill health from 300mg to 500mg as does many many blood work panels I have seen you can cycle 300mg for 8-10 weeks, asses results and blood work and then either increase testosterone a little or bring in something like primo/masteron to extend the cycle.

There has to be logic with everything – why risk an infection, stab yourself in the leg, shut your natural system down to barely make you anything more than the normal range.

I have had this opinion a long time and it will always be the same.

I do agree with Kuba – I see no point in the ostarine –

I would just run 300mg testosterone – split Monday and thursday or Monday/Wed/Fri ideally but I also appreciate as a first cycle some dont want to inject 3 times a week.

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[Hilly]

monday –
Cardio done
All meals in

Trained shoulders/additional chest

Db side laterals – x 10, x 10, x 9F, x 12F with a drop set
Shoulder press machine – x 8, x 8, x 8, x6f
Shoulder press machine – piston style reps – 15, x 15, x 12F
Cable rear delts – x 15, x 15, x 15, x 12F, x 16F
Cable rope front raises – x 10, x 10, x 8F
FST7 DB side laterals – 7 sets with 20-30 seconds rest

Machine chest press – 15, x 15, x 14F, x 12F, x 17F

Job done -great pump -Strength seemed decent but was in a different gym so was hard to say

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[Hilly]

Agree with the girls above i would have no issues in doing it this way.

However what about having one of the sessions 1 leg seated ham curl ? Could even try 1 leg lay ham curl ?

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[Hilly]

0 slin in this phase?

Slin has only been on high days in general bar 1iu pre workout on normal days.

currently that has been removed and there are no high days and thus no slin

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[Hilly]

I would love to here your opinion on how dhts actually lower estrogenlevels.

But as far as my knowledge goes its not entirley correct that a dht actually lowers estrogen.

I personally feel like Steve should estimate how much test he can handle without sideffects as ED. When he found this personal spot he can drive progress libido with a dht as needed.

I think that would be a more controllable way than to throw a dht ontop of a dose that he cant handle without dht.

In fact doing it this way doesnt say that he could not be able to add more test if more dht is used!

From hundreds of peoples blood work myself included I have seen both the additions of masteron and primo reduce E2 on blood work quite drastically in most individuals.

Many/most on here use these drugs as ways of combatting E2 in all cycles.

masteron seems to be more effective than primo in around 90% of individuals IMO.

For me it makes no sense to use less and less test just to keep E2 in range as for some this may be 150-200mg and then driving masteron up can actually make E2 low – I have seen this in several people.

they key as you say – finding the perfect balance for that person but when I am looking at maximising a cycle I certainly would not want a client running TRT doses of test or just above to keep E2 in range and then looking to drive up Mast to try and build muscle and send E2 in the gutter. The outcome would be far from ideal.

The key for myself is in finding a dose/combination of drugs you feel best on, perform best on and make the most progress on while health markers stay in range.

[/quote]

Hi all,

Long time waiting but finally got my bloodwork back,

Oestradiol is at 130pmol/L

Test is at 280nmol/L

Does this look in range now im on 200mg of test and 200mg primo, I’m starting to doubt myself as I’m starting to think its a psychological thing that I feel when I’m on cycle[/quote]

This Test reading is very very high for that dose of test – 280 from 200mg Test is ridiculous. – I would say this was wrong TBH.

E2 looks fine.

is it possible that test read was 28?[/quote]

Hi Peter, I’ve tried uploading the photo but doesn’t seem to let me, the medicheck test says 280 mol/L, do you think they’ve got this wrong at their end? Should I contact them?[/quote]
personally i would. I havnt seen this reading from 900mg testosterone never mind 200mg.

In general we would expect 200mg to put us just over the normal range – so around 30-50 IME. Some may see higher but in general this is what we would expect

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[Hilly]

Changes from Aj as we move into this next phase.

No high day
Free meal Sunday
Carbs up on T days a little.
Rest day protein portions to 9oz cooked lol. Thats alot of dam protein.

Supplements as is
500mg test, 450mg EQ, 450mg Mast E – 50mg Test Base pre workout 3 x a week. All of these are split MWF
Gh – 2iu 3 x a day
L carnatine – 500mg pre workout
1000mg metformin pre bed
100mcg t4 on wake

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[Hilly]

Sat – weight 233lb
Cardio done
Steps today are way to high at 17k – took the little one to a soft play so spent alot of time chasing her around.

All meals in

Trained back – hard work sets noted

Wide grip pull downs – x 12, x 12, x 8F with 1 drop set
1 arm HS pull down – x 6, x 6, x 6F with 2 forced reps
1 arm Row x 8, x 8, x 8F
Upper back cable row – x 12, x 12, x 7F
V grip row – x 20, x 15, x 11F

Good session, strength was good, pump was good.

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[Hilly]

@Hilly I know this isn’t related to the post – but would bpc 157 and tb500 increase the rate of time taken to recover post surgery? Thanks

for this i would be looking to Growth hormone and not these 2 peptides personally although they may help.

IME GH alone is fantastic at speeding up the recovery time of stuff like this.

I would usually only recommend these other peptides when it came to tendon stuff

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