[Hilly]

I would love to here your opinion on how dhts actually lower estrogenlevels.

But as far as my knowledge goes its not entirley correct that a dht actually lowers estrogen.

I personally feel like Steve should estimate how much test he can handle without sideffects as ED. When he found this personal spot he can drive progress libido with a dht as needed.

I think that would be a more controllable way than to throw a dht ontop of a dose that he cant handle without dht.

In fact doing it this way doesnt say that he could not be able to add more test if more dht is used!

From hundreds of peoples blood work myself included I have seen both the additions of masteron and primo reduce E2 on blood work quite drastically in most individuals.

Many/most on here use these drugs as ways of combatting E2 in all cycles.

masteron seems to be more effective than primo in around 90% of individuals IMO.

For me it makes no sense to use less and less test just to keep E2 in range as for some this may be 150-200mg and then driving masteron up can actually make E2 low – I have seen this in several people.

they key as you say – finding the perfect balance for that person but when I am looking at maximising a cycle I certainly would not want a client running TRT doses of test or just above to keep E2 in range and then looking to drive up Mast to try and build muscle and send E2 in the gutter. The outcome would be far from ideal.

The key for myself is in finding a dose/combination of drugs you feel best on, perform best on and make the most progress on while health markers stay in range.

[/quote]

Hi all,

Long time waiting but finally got my bloodwork back,

Oestradiol is at 130pmol/L

Test is at 280nmol/L

Does this look in range now im on 200mg of test and 200mg primo, I’m starting to doubt myself as I’m starting to think its a psychological thing that I feel when I’m on cycle[/quote]
This Test reading is very very high for that dose of test – 280 from 200mg Test is ridiculous. – I would say this was wrong TBH.
E2 looks fine.

is it possible that test read was 28?

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[Hilly]

Friday – Weight 232lb

Busy work day
Cardio done
Check in pics taken
Physio on my neck/shoulder – been getting some numbness in my left arm that is coming from the neck.

So due to this didn’t train chest/shoulders and hit arms that I missed earlier in week.

Was a bit of a make shift session as working around the neck etc and also had a little pain in left bicep again so didn’t want to aggravate it.

Nothing exciting.

all food in

Pics to follow

No change to cycle etc yet – check in is 2moro

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[Hilly]

Thursday – Typical rest day
Cardio done
Busy work day

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[Hilly]

All of the of the TBJP Athletes are very good coaches, however I think @Hilly might be a good fit here for you.

Cheers @Clare

if you have any questions or want to chat regarding coaching hit me up on insta – there is a link to book a free call on there to chat.

However as Clare states all the team are coaches and some of the best in the business no doubt :))

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[Hilly]

yeh 200mg primo is not controlling 99% of peoples E2 here IME.

Firstly it is very person depending so it is hard for us to say.

For me in this scenario I would be using 300mg EQ if the client was able to based on blood work.

some may get away with 5-600mg of masteron.

However what I would be doing is making the following changes.

200mg test
300mg NPP
300mg masteron

Same total dose but much better E2 management.

Then get bloods done at week 5-6 and asses what you need to do if anything based on this.

As an add on – you certainly can simply use Aromasin – how much you would have to work out and if you one of those people that seem to not get a negative from Aromasin on lipids then I see no issues in doing so TBH.

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[Hilly]

We need to know exactly what you have been doing

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[Hilly]

Hey Peter, thank you for your answer! 🙂

Believe me or not, but this is a topic over years for me and i done a lot of things.

Training: I tried to switch the volume, intensity and frequency. My conclusion is, that 2x a hard training is ok for me and i can train more than 3-4 weeks. But than the progress of strengths and muscles is unavailable. If i add a 3rd hard session, i have the same problem… doenst matter what split.

Nutrition: Also tried a few things and i also made a lot of test here. Intolerance tests, microbiome analysis, stomach bacteria test. Also tried to eat more food (of course and healthy and stuff i can digest) but i the end i get only fat. I weight myself everyday and i tried to have a cal+ of 200-300 cal.

Bloodwork: Here i spend a lot for these tests. I hope i use the correct translation for that!

lliver (got, ggt, gpt), kidney (creatinin, gfr und urea), white and red blood, thyroid (tsh, t3, rt3, t4), hormones (testo, SSBG, estrogen, prolactin, fsh, lh, dhae, igf1, hgh, cortisol, pregnenolone), vitamins (d3, iod, b12, iron), cholesterol (hdl, ldl).

There was everything fine, execpt of a few high creatinin and GPT, but the quote of the doctor was “that is a result of hard training and completly fine”.

The TSH was @4,x.. because of that i got a medication, and than it was unter 2… But changed nothing for the main problem and i felt nothing of that.

As i said i also made cortisol stress tests. At the beginning my cortisol is higher than average, and if ignore tha symptomes it goes complety low. The doctor said, that this is a normal “overtraining” value and after that i feel completly bad.

Thanks a lot!!!

What were your hormone levels – the numbers

A Doctor ma say normal and it be in the very gutter end of normal –

After that there isn’t much else I could suggest based on all of this over a forum like this TBH – it would take some one working with you closely and analysing everything and then working with you over time.

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[Hilly]

Wed – High day and leg day

All meals will be in no issues
Cardio done – Steps 12-13k

Legs – all sets are work sets

Seated ham curls – 3 second negative – pause in contraction – x 10, x 10, x 6F with 2 drop sets
Extensions – 3 seance negative, 3 second positive, pause in contraction – x 10, x 10, x 6F with 4 rest paused sets
Leg press x 15, x 15, x 11f rest paused to 15 – x 7F – no forced reps as no spotter
Belt squat – x 10, x 10, x 10
1 leg press – done 10 second rest between legs – 5 sets of 8 reps each leg – increase weight gain next time
Smith squats – 100kg x failure – piston style
1 leg ham curl – 3 sets of 8 with 8 partials afterwards. – last one hit failure
Lay ham curl – 2 second pause in contraction – x 15, x 11F, x 8F
Adductor – 3 second negative – x 10, x 10, 9F

Good session. – focus was high and energy through was good –

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[Hilly]

Hello bud – firstly there is 0 need to make every 4th week a deload if i am reading that correctly- this sounds crazy to me TBH. If you feel you need a reload every 4 weeks this tells me there is an issue with your hormones/food/training set up.

I would first go and get a full blood test done checking – hormones/kidney/liver/blood/lipids etc.

Based not his you will have a much clearer picture of what is going on and what may be causing this issue and we can give more accurate advice as to what to do next

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[Hilly]

Tuesday – Weight – 231 – down a tad from illness but not terrible.

All meals in – better timing with these meals today to so I need to keep this up.

Trained shoulders/additional chest. – work sets only below

Stand Db lateral – x 10, x 10, x 9F, x 13F
Shoulder press machine – x 10, x 10, x 8F, x 12F
Shoulder press machine piston style just bottom 60% ROM – x 15, x 15, x 11F
Rear delts – x 15, x 15, x 12F, x 9F with a drop set
Machine side laterals FST – 7 sets with 20-30 second rest

pec dec – 6 sets – 8-15 reps

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[Hilly]

I favour a one cycle split most of the time personally. Simply because i know what works well and i feel the most and this is fine in 1 split.

I do then rotate the order of the split at times.

I then have many clients that are similar but just as Many have 2 variations – its really about what exercises you feel work best and are useful for you now and if you need a second variation to include them.

Also a second variation can be useful if you have areas your trying to focus on or if you tend to get bored of doing the same thing week after week which many do

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[Hilly]

Literally no one here works there doses out like this Buddy.

if its 100mg per ml then I would say im taking 200mg if im taking 2ml and so on.

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[Hilly]

Monday. -Cough is still really bad so rested again today and got lots of work done.

All meals in – No cardio done just steps

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[Hilly]

Keep cutting at least another 4 weeks if not longer – I would want a good bit more far off first

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[Hilly]

very individual.

for most i rarely change salt – I will for most double sodium in meal 1 if they are on in the earlier parts of the day or in meals 1/2/3 if they are a little flat

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