[Hilly]

If you’re pre-diabetic or diabetic, metformin is fantastic.

Metformin will inhibit muscle growth and it will reduce the benefits from cardiovascular exercise.

If you’re an athlete, especially a bodybuilder or endurance athlete, I’m not convinced it makes any sense at all to use. In your case, I’d keep a check on that fasting blood glucose. It may be sensible for you to use it for health purposes.

I know the educators here disagree, but I haven’t been convinced of metformin for the healthy individual.

Brady

Where do you see any evidence metformin will inhibit muscle growth and reduce benefits from exercise ? I am intrigued…. Show me the study ? As the people who claim this base it of a study done on 80 year olds not applicable at all bud

Are you basing this of your opinion only ?

Indirectly metformin if anything will make the process far easier to build muscle and lose body fat through properties it has[/quote]

Kuba,

Firstly, I want to say I think your arguments in favor of metformin are valid. It does seem like a miracle drug. I am not convinced it has benefits for the healthy individual though. I will link to you a review published by the American College of Sports Medicine. It shows that metformin in conjunction with aerobic exercise blunts the benefits of the aerobic exercise. There is also the study you mentioned regarding elderly people and decreased hypertrophy. While you are correct that this was done in an older population, I think the proposed mechanisms of action of metformin are the important part. I think these mechanisms would still apply to anyone.

Also, I believe it is included in the review, but if not I can source it, aerobic exercise has been shown to improve health markers more than metformin.

In my opinion of course, I don’t think metformin and exercise are synergistic.

Brady

[/quote]

We are bodybuilders taking steroids, we aren’t normal healthy individuals

I am not convinced normal people need it.

People taking gear / gh and copious amounts of food can inevitably lead to diabetes and has in many cases

There just isn’t a single argument that can favour or present anything constructive where someone using assistance shouldn’t be utilising metformin one way or another.

80 year olds who do not train already see muscle mass decrease that study is worlds apart of any application of what we do.

Question in forum is regarding enchanted athletes not normal healthy people.

Enhanced athletes metformin yes

Natural probably not needed but some would benefit still [/quote]

For example, if someone is pre-diabetic, their chance of reversing this with aerobic exercise is around 60%. Their chance of reversing it with metformin (no exercise) is 30%.

If metformin can reduce the benefits of exercise, as a bodybuilder, why would you take it unless you’re pre-diabetic or diabetic? Nick who originally posted this may very well consider metformin since his fasting glucose is nearly pre-diabetic.

This is just one parameter. There are more that are better improved by exercise than metformin.

This is why I’m not yet convinced.

Agree to disagree ? [/quote]
The study is a very interesting one.

Some caveats that put me off some of the information.

the reduction in Aerobic exercise in healthy people was a huge dose of 2000mg per day. No one recommends going this high from what I gather.

There mains study was done in people with type 2 diabetes and thus you may very well see no added benefit in these people from adding in metformin on to of the exercise as they exercise is reversing the cause would be my thoughts.

again the dose seems to be much higher than what we tend to use so becomes questionable.

There show a lot of benefits here including an increase in fat burning during lower intensity exercise it seems.

Any knock on potential muscle growth/physiological reactions to exercise was seen in higher dosed studies from what I can read and not the 500mg daily I would be going with.

I think the study very strongly backs up what it is looking at – there is little to no evidence to justify adding in metformin to those with type 2 diabetes as an immediate treatment option.

Thus doctor especially in this country simply treat type 2 wrongly – However Imo they do not as there is a greater chance of getting your general person to pop a pill than complete daily exercise which is sad but true.

How much this has any regard to us that are healthy, train hard and only using 500mg daily is IMO very little to 0 as it is not looking at low dose use on trained individuals trying to maximise muscle growth

A very good discussion this is – I just think we have to look closer at the study and what doses are being used alongside the populations being used to see if it will then have an effect on us directly.

My points here are also only relevant to natural athletes.

We have no idea if these effects are then negated or enhanced by the metformin if one is using steroids

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[Hilly]

 

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[Hilly]

Imo it would be more favourable to run 200mg test and 100mg primo/mast based on access to real compounds

No need for anything else IMO

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[Hilly]

Weight 234.5lb so a new low

First free meal of the 3 weeks was Sat night – I had a burger and fries – Was awesome

Shoulders/chest today

Seated calfs – x 20, x 15, x 15, x 15 – pyramid up. – last set a double drop

Machine side lateral done with a dead stop – x 8, x 8, x 20 BO
Lay front raises – x 15, x 12, x 12, x 10

Seated rear belt row to head – x 10, 10, 10, 10 – pyramid up a little each set – focusing on pulling the handles outwards and not just back.

Stand cuff side laterals – x 15, x 15, x 10 plus 5 partials

Seated chest cable press – 3 x 15 warm ups to pre exhaust a little – x 15, 12, 10, 8 – same weight
Incline cable chest – x 10/10/10 – same weight
Machine press neutral grip – x 20, x 15

I only train my good pec side so have to train around this any way I can and it makes for crap workouts but with the other only being 10% left attached it simply doesn’t work and thus if I try and train that side the arm just gets bigger

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[Hilly]

 

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[Hilly]

 

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[Hilly]

Imo it’s not a concern

I believe the research was very limited on this.

It wouldn’t worry me. Especially if an assisted athlete.

Are you natural or using AAS

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[Hilly]

I imagine a lot of this is simply due to it being new

As you become more adapted the pace will not be n issue and thus less stress / anxiety

Any one starting in a new field / environment experiences this.

I hated it myself.

My opinion. – focus on becoming very good and adapted to the job ASAP.

The better I became at something as quickly as possible the less the stress and anxiety was

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[Hilly]

As Riz says exercise and form first and foremost

If you have always done DB side laterals for example n not seeing the results move to something cable based

I’m a huge fan of crucifix laterals

I also do feel delts are better in higher rep ranges

11-20 reps for laterals etc

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[Hilly]

 

Thanks Hilly. It just sounds like a low-risk addition which may help enhance physique further, so I may add it in at 500mg/dayas you say you do with your clients? If it helps me partition nutrients better (less to fat and more to muscle), worth a try?[/quote]
Defo agree

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[Hilly]

 

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[Hilly]

This was last Thursday compared to 18 days prior

Weight pic on left post Xmas n down time 243
Weight on right 235-236

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[Hilly]

Weight 234.5lb

New low

Missed a meal yesterday. Baby isn’t sleeping well at all so we’re both up loads and I’m trying give charl
As much time as I can when not working

So totally missed a meal

Legs still a little sore today as expected

Lower back feels food

Another week on DNP – dose will go to 150mg this last week. Then drop out week prior to going Dubai

Food still 4K T days and around 3k now rest days

Protein is 320-350g total

Will post up today’s macros later

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[Hilly]

I would give it another week

If no better try nolva

What is inject frequency

Could it help to hit up the frequency of the injektion? So instead of doing nolva start by doing the shots 4 time a week?[/quote]
you have not told us the injection frequency ? So I couldn’t comment on if changing this would be good but your time on the forum should of helped you see more frequent injections is better for estrogen control.

EOD would be a good way to move to.

Simply get some bloods done and see what is going oin.

Changing the cycle by simply adding in 100mg primo or masteron would be an effective way at controlling estrogen yes,

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